Airline Selections in 2026 with Captain Guillaume Debauchez – Preparation, Reality & Professional Standards

00:00:00:

00:00:27: The views shared in this podcast are personal and for informational purposes only.

00:00:31: They do not reflect any employer or aviation authority and nothing discussed here should be considered flight training, or regulatory guidance.

00:00:37: Please always refer to official sources.

00:00:39: this episode may also contain product placement.

00:00:42: for further information visit our website aviation-quest.c.

00:00:46: Hello everybody!

00:00:47: And welcome back To another episode of Aviation Quest CC.

00:00:53: I'm Stefan Lorenz.

00:00:54: I am one of your hosts, but not alone.

00:00:58: Regular listeners will know that we have our beloved friend and proper professional podcaster here, Jürgen!

00:01:07: How are you?

00:01:08: Hi, my name is Jürger Weiss from Proper Professional.

00:01:15: Really proud to present you today a proper professional interview because of really, really professional guest.

00:01:26: I mean it's just an honor!

00:01:28: To have had an interview with Captain Guillaume de Boucher founder and CEO of airline selection program ASP.

00:01:37: Stefan i think he will agree.

00:01:38: this is yeah... It´s another for our young podcast.

00:01:46: Exactly, unfortunately I couldn't be there so Jürgen will conduct the interview.

00:01:51: So you'll hear the interview just with Jürghen.

00:01:55: But obviously I listened to the interview afterwards and have to say it was a really, really cool an interesting listen.

00:02:01: If any of you out there are even remotely interested in a career in aviation this is exactly that kind of podcast.

00:02:10: You need to listen too.

00:02:12: There's so much information here cool insight, so much wisdom from someone who has been in this industry for a very long time and helped I don't know hundreds of people to prepare uh for their step into aviation.

00:02:30: So i thought it was...it was a really great interview!

00:02:34: Very insightful and very interesting.

00:02:37: Ermin Guillaume brings a rare combination of cockpit experience and airline recruitment insights.

00:02:44: And his career has included flying for major international airlines, command experience on the Boeing triple seven and direct involvement in pilot selection.

00:02:54: Certainly this is podcast gold as Stefan pointed out to everybody looking forward to professional career aviation

00:03:05: because he knows Both sides of the coin.

00:03:08: He was the one Interview people deciding whether he wants them in the company or not, so he knows exactly what People like him who still do this and will be sitting opposite to you when they are looking for What they don't like?

00:03:27: So yeah it's really good Really cool and interesting podcast.

00:03:32: by the way Not just I'm trying to get into the industry.

00:03:38: He's also coaching a lot of experienced pilots that want to change companies or maybe doing their upgrade, things like this.

00:03:46: so anyone who is facing any kind of interview selection anything He's your man.

00:04:01: It is the one to coach you and prepare as best he can.

00:04:06: I mean, you will agree Steph.

00:04:07: a new word there.

00:04:09: The most decisive step for professional career is often airline selection or also the upgrade of whatever those election days.

00:04:19: they are life changing hopefully in positive way and ASP.

00:04:26: i mentioned at beginning that Guillaume de Boucher is founder & CEO of this company.

00:04:33: he's running there

00:04:51: Very interesting.

00:04:53: Guy, very interesting man.

00:04:56: I thought it was a really cool interview.

00:04:59: brought back a lot of memories from my time when i tried to get into aviation.

00:05:05: not all of it positive because It is a tough Time but he's the right person To listen too if you want to take that step.

00:05:15: so

00:05:16: Shall we get started with the interview again?

00:05:18: Are you happy to switch over to the interview part?

00:05:22: I'm not sure, first i have to congratulate you for one of your achieved goals.

00:05:28: Ten thousand subscribers on your FS Clips YouTube channel if you allow Stefan.

00:05:35: Allow myself this minute and thanks to... This was not off topic because youtube so-to say pilot leave it like this.

00:05:46: Stefan is also providing So to say the video background for our YouTube podcast version.

00:05:55: We are an audio cast, we're on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon podcasts, Podcastedict and Podigy but... Got a YouTube channel and thanks to Stefan's Youtube work.

00:06:11: We also have here a flight for you so that you got something going on, what is the flight about today?

00:06:20: Well we are flying with British Airways from Milan to London.

00:06:27: Heathrow mentioned this at the beginning because I forgot and that's why in the beginning you are a professional podcaster.

00:06:39: And, um...you know..I'm just here for the ride!

00:06:42: Let us leave it like this.... I got the checklist of the podcast studio on.

00:06:48: You Got Them In The Cockpit!

00:06:53: Exactly!

00:06:55: Okay.

00:06:56: But now I think we should finally look forward to an episode, Stefan you will agree it's not about shortcuts because they are normally impossible on a selection day.

00:07:11: It is about preparation realism and understanding what airlines are truly looking for.

00:07:18: Exactly very well put so okay.

00:07:22: without further ado I will pass your honor to Jürgen's amazing interview and we'll hear you on the other side after the interviews done.

00:07:33: Enjoy!

00:07:37: Captain Guillaume de Boucher, it is great to have you with us.

00:07:40: You've seen airline selection from both the cockpit and recruitment site And today through Airline Selection Programme... ...you are helping pilots prepare for that critical step.

00:07:51: Before we dive in How do you currently see your role in the aviation world, Guillaume?

00:07:57: And what is airline selection program trying to bring to pilot careers today.

00:08:04: Well we help pilots achieve their full career potential which starts by getting a first job fast and subsequently getting the career that they truly deserve Getting the first job fastest.

00:08:19: it's the most difficult phase for any pilot, particularly in today's market.

00:08:26: And even after you've been successful getting your optimal career is something that very important for a pilot because it might start with an airline which gave them their first few hundred hours but eventually they need to evolve into an airline who are more stable and will allow people have a more fulfilled life perhaps also better security in terms of simple job security.

00:08:51: So we help pilots across this whole face of going through airline selections and interviews, whether they are cadets with no hours or at least no commercial pilot's license.

00:09:04: Or low-timers typically who have just been through flight school now to find their first job with a licence in hand.

00:09:11: Or experienced pilots.

00:09:12: we go as far as helping experienced captains change airlines which again is very important for them.

00:09:18: anyone has the selection front period of their life, just lying in front them and whether you're an ab initio or a captain this time is important for otherwise.

00:09:30: You wouldn't be going through the pain of selection.

00:09:34: The candidate we hope most are typically low timer because they very keen in the sense that now it's important they materialize this investment and for them to not be able to materialize its investments is going to a life-changing situation.

00:09:53: And so we really help them unlock potentials, which are part of those who will succeed or make it into a cockpit because everybody doesn't

00:10:01: do it.

00:10:03: Yes, but Guillaume why you think airline selection underestimated by many pallets?

00:10:11: because it seems to be this way.

00:10:13: Yeah, It is the same as always and that's something we are looking for change in a long-lasting manner.

00:10:23: The reason is very simple is that the regulator typically ISA but also the FAA and any governing body has not made part of any curriculum to prepare candidates, to become professionals.

00:10:42: And so they go through flight school having to do a certain number of theory modules and then the certain number flights... ...and then they go though exams and get their licenses.

00:10:55: At no point here is anything taught on how to become professional an employee ready a process as difficult and varied as an airline selection.

00:11:12: And therefore, candidates go through their training... ...and for them it's like climbing a huge mountain!

00:11:20: They've come to what they think is the top of the mountain with their license in hand….

00:11:25: …and don't know or anticipate that there are even bigger mountains to climb which is to convince an airline you're the candidate they have been looking for.

00:11:36: For this, there are certain competencies that you need to develop.

00:11:40: Communication is one but also a good understanding of the airline pilot role.

00:11:46: what exactly is it?

00:11:48: To be an airline pilot?

00:11:49: What are the challenges That an airline pilots may face in their career?

00:11:53: How do project yourself according rules that you might want to be aware of when you go for any interview in an industry, mistakes not make.

00:12:06: Golden rules need to know.

00:12:08: so the interview goes swimmingly and the recruiter doesn't feel it's difficult.

00:12:16: So this element of professionalization will make a massive difference in your life, whether you're a pilot or actually an employee... ...or an aspiring employee of any industry.

00:12:27: If you are successful at any single selection that you envisage You will become the CEO of big company but if you fail half-the time.. ..you'll have a career which looks quite different therefore and most times you won't fulfill your dreams.

00:12:45: And so learning this skill is something that should be taught at high school, if you ask me.

00:12:50: Knowing it specifically is something to be taught in flight schools and not many things are taught there such as managing your money or knowing how to apply for jobs... ...and knowing to interview!

00:13:04: At Flight School its the same when it comes to interviews.

00:13:07: It's no one fault but it isn't the Flight Schools' fault either.

00:13:11: But the fact is The pilot has this responsibility to make the final step towards the airline, because the airline won't take a final step toward them.

00:13:22: The airline has to feel that these candidates have sufficient motivation, represents low level of risk into bringing them in their workforce and so it is upto the pilot who takes its destiny with his hands.

00:13:45: It just brought up some great metaphors, so the steep mountain and also last mile.

00:13:52: Allow me a practical question, Guillaume What do candidates in your eyes most often misunderstand about what airlines are actually assessing for?

00:14:05: A lot of candidates think that airlines are assessing the technical side which in fact is dealt with for the most at the psychometric stage, which often includes embedded in it an ATPL multiple choice question.

00:14:24: Which will validate that actually this candidate between brackets smart enough.

00:14:31: They underestimate That what makes a candidate truly valuable to an airline Is a combination of being smart?

00:14:40: Of course we want smart pilots but being emotionally smart as well.

00:14:46: No one teaches them what emotional intelligence is about, and when you don't know something that you should be knowing it's very difficult to perform at anything!

00:14:57: And this is why there are so much of a misunderstanding between the candidate thinks they're going to be asked... ...and what the airline actually expects.

00:15:09: But to break down What are key pillars?

00:15:13: So in your point of view, on a modern airline selection in twenty-twenty six and beyond the flying skills.

00:15:22: What really differentiates candidates Guillaume?

00:15:26: I mean yeah deep dive question but certainly deep dive answer from you.

00:15:30: take your time!

00:15:32: Yeah.

00:15:32: so what will differentiate a candidate is one who was able to display this emotional intelligence strong knowledge of the target airline and as well a strong knowledge Of The airline pilot role in its constraints.

00:15:54: So when you have all this together, And if you add good interview technique now You're starting to have very polished candidates.

00:16:02: so When we talk about Emotional intelligence it's your ability To work Together In team In A way that brings the best of every single Team member.

00:16:14: It is what We call Emotional intelligence is a wide concept, just like CRM.

00:16:19: And in the way it's... It's the same thing okay?

00:16:23: Its you being able to relate with others and be able to anticipate how they might behave To anticipate when there may not be performing at their best using communication as tool In order to make sure that everybody on this page.

00:16:43: Of course You have your ability be a team player to work as a team and also, to be able to lead.

00:16:50: And alternating between leading and following in way that is healthy on the flight deck.

00:16:57: But for this you need understand dynamics of big CRM blocks and competencies expected from an airline pilot which has been the same for last few years dictated by IKO but also the competencies required from a recruitment point of view.

00:17:17: Most of you will know the nine IKO competencies that are being evaluated when you go to the SIM or during your line checks, there's some... A few more competences that are evaluated in HR interview such as motivation.

00:17:31: This is not a competency listed on an IKO competency but it's very important when you enter an airline.

00:17:39: Also, your creativity is something that is evaluated.

00:17:41: That might seem very counterintuitive to a candidate because candidates especially when they are fresh out of flight school They've been taught to follow procedures at all times and so they think that being creative Is not part of the equation as a pilot.

00:17:55: but actually it is you As a pilot And you know cuz you're a pilot You follow the rules But sometimes the rules don't exactly work according to plan.

00:18:06: It can be the case if something happens to the airplane technically, but it could also happen with operational procedures.

00:18:14: You might want to adapt a few things and respect the spirit of rules not necessarily the rule point blanks.

00:18:23: Also there may be multiple rules that could be in conflict so you will need make this call together with your colleagues.

00:18:29: So that is something they need to understand and also intellectual honesty, it's something being evaluated in a candidate so the candidates are not easy to interview.

00:18:40: when you ask them questions they seem to not give you frank answers but you have to rephrase constantly if they're hiding something or going to score low on this one.

00:18:50: at the same time as there too honest then we can have an effect where volunteer shortcomings into the interview which creates risk for the recruiter and will not make them very comfortable in hiring you.

00:19:05: So, there's a whole lot of things that you have to master in order be successful at your interviews And I would say... To many of you listening this point might think Oh my God!

00:19:19: What he just said is so much to know.

00:19:22: Yes There are lots training to become...to professionalize yourself, which is what it really.

00:19:31: It's the last thing that you need to succeed and we try and teach in a way as compact possible but not because this isn't necessarily short.

00:19:46: yes if you want do well.

00:19:47: there are actually lots of things for people who didn't know or should have known.

00:19:53: I'll finish on.

00:19:55: People tend to succeed at anything.

00:19:58: Once they know what they should be knowing, and have the skills that they are supposed to be having... If you don't know how it's going on or if there aren't any skills you're supposed to have, then you would tend to fail.

00:20:10: But come a point when something is required comes up which becomes difficult for them to fail!

00:20:15: particularly if you practice a lot and that's actually what you've done your whole life through high school, through flight schools.

00:20:22: You gain some theory...you put the theory into practice ...you did it many times enough so that you started to master what you were doing.

00:20:30: It is no different for selection.

00:20:37: Have a little bit of deep dive into this human factor, modality that's going on here.

00:20:42: When you meet the candidate today with all your experience I don't know how many applicants you had face to face?

00:20:49: It

00:20:50: must be thousands!

00:20:52: At least hundreds.

00:20:53: i have no clue.

00:20:54: but what tells you maybe within minutes Guillaume whether they are ready or not.

00:21:02: Well actually find out.

00:21:03: You get a lot of cues already when you read their cover letter.

00:21:08: So the first contact you will have with a candidate at the final interview stage is through their paperwork, through their CV and cover letter.

00:21:19: This actually precedes the candidates into the room.

00:21:23: You know how very often people say you never make get a second chance to make your first impression?

00:21:29: A lot of people view this as I enter the room.

00:21:33: OK, your body language is very important.

00:21:42: But the first impression you actually don't make with your body... You make it in writing.

00:21:47: Then fifteen minutes before you enter into a room The recruiter will read your material and makes themselves an opinion on yourself And I can tell that how to write is a good reflection of what you're likely to speak.

00:22:01: So when i see a cover letter which is very long Typically five hundred words or more Oh my god, I'm gonna have to read all this and because if you are in a real recruitment scenario You're going to read the whole thing.

00:22:15: It's your duty To read it And instantly.

00:22:19: what do think is This person will probably be difficult to interview Because they'll be verbose.

00:22:27: They won't get to that point.

00:22:30: Very often long letters Are filled with generalities.

00:22:33: Superlatives Actually rarely contain precise information.

00:22:39: a short letter will get straight to the point and often contains very relevant information about the candidate, but also why they want to join our airline.

00:22:50: So you see... You'll get an opportunity right there to know quite a lot of candidates.

00:22:56: Also if their CV is clean or easy-to-understand.

00:22:59: If it's not a multicolored CV with lots of little icons everywhere.

00:23:04: that kind get my eyes, you know.

00:23:06: a few thirty seconds to get used to the format then I will have the feeling that this candidate understands what i'm trying to achieve here.

00:23:15: Of course it's impossible for the candidate to guess that without someone well like myself...I guess..to tell them what is expected.

00:23:22: but you would find invariably that recruiters want CVs that are clean black and white in line old-fashioned okay just because you see so many of It would be different if you were working in a marketing agency or in sales, but for pilots that's just what is expected.

00:23:43: So your question was about what can immediately tell you.

00:23:48: so this one?

00:23:48: Just to know the cover letter with heading included and signature should never in my mind more than three hundred fifty words.

00:24:00: More than likely, if you're listening to this and looking at your letter right now it's around four hundred words.

00:24:06: Four hundred twenty.

00:24:07: And probably wondering how can I shape things?

00:24:09: Well there is a technique that we teach in one of our courses When you get very good at it You actually write a letter with two hundred ninety three hundred words.

00:24:20: That super impactful Mark Twain said... There's a lot of truth in

00:24:32: this.

00:24:33: You know when you write emails, right?

00:24:35: It is usually long and you manage to shorten it by half... ...and just get into the essence of it.

00:24:41: This work although the recruiter might not have my level of analysis of it.

00:24:47: They get the CVs they got their feelings But but feel that this is nice When someone gets to point quickly.

00:24:58: Okay, I'm not saying that there should be nothing in your letter but it should really impactful.

00:25:04: No no!

00:25:04: I have written and published seven books at home absolutely in your corner.

00:25:09: It's writing is... yeah some people think its easy But especially what you said about long and short writing.

00:25:17: i subscribe everywhere to your channel.

00:25:21: Well yes Yes And Its Not Really a Candidate Job to write.

00:25:26: it's not there.

00:25:28: It's not what we expect from

00:25:30: the paperwork should be right.

00:25:31: I mean, that's

00:25:33: it should me.

00:25:34: and well just this morning.

00:25:35: actually We really did a letter for a candidate just this morning and he you know, is a military pilot very skilled in what he does.

00:25:43: And his reconverting to civilian life well... He needed my help very clearly!

00:25:49: Now he went like oh my god it looks quite different than I wrote but everyone has their speciality okay?

00:25:57: But let's say the paperwork was ok.

00:26:04: What makes an answer in an interview credible instead of just correct.

00:26:12: The quality of the evidence!

00:26:15: So, the recruiter is looking for evidence on things that will have happened in your past because... ...the best way to know how you're going to behave tomorrow with us typically.. ..is to know HOW YOU BEHAVED IN A SIMILAR SITUATION TO WHAT YOU MIGHT ENCOUNTER TOMORROW, IN A RECENT PAST.

00:26:36: So we are going to ask questions, too the candidate about things that happened in a recent past.

00:26:42: Tell me at time when you had a difficult situation at work?

00:26:48: Okay there four big areas of question that I don't have.

00:26:53: The scope here is not to be able go into detail but this is typically A Question You Could Get with multiple variations.

00:27:00: But tell Me At Time where you faced a Difficult Situation at Work.

00:27:05: And so here there is a technique to answer, which you need to bring this person with you into these days.

00:27:13: Remember the recruiter didn't know you ten minutes ago?

00:27:16: They've never seen you!

00:27:18: they met through your paperwork and started together feeling about during their personal presentation seeing if you are someone who communicates well, who gets to the point.

00:27:32: If this matches what they saw on their letter and now they're getting into bulk of interview which is asking such questions And so...they still don't know that much.

00:27:44: So your going want bring an outline about happened.

00:27:49: when was it?

00:27:50: It's always first thing say because the recruiter wants to know.

00:27:54: imagine if you have a fifteen year career already or maybe a fifteen-year career, and you start to give them the example right away.

00:28:02: The first thing I'm going to wonder is when did this happen?

00:28:04: Was it last year six months ago ten years ago?

00:28:07: because its more relevant if it's recent okay.

00:28:12: so When Did This Happen?

00:28:13: Where was It?

00:28:14: Which Airport?

00:28:16: where do You Take Off From?

00:28:17: Where Were You Going?

00:28:18: which face of flight?

00:28:19: Maybe?

00:28:21: What Actually Happened?

00:28:23: And Then How Did It Unfold?

00:28:25: Okay So You Go Across This this format, and you need to bring in the elements that the recruiter needs in order to understand.

00:28:35: If for instance let's take an example of military, there are some things not done the same as civilian life.

00:28:44: You have to explain how different it is with a recruiter or yesterday I was working.

00:28:58: He was a commercial pilot but doing single-pilot operations.

00:29:01: The performance rules are not the same, okay?

00:29:06: The regulations aren't exactly the same.

00:29:09: so you have to explain it with your recruiter.

00:29:12: when there's something about runway length or about performance issue whatever is what you're allowed and not allowed because its different from what the recruiter knows.

00:29:27: put yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn't know what you're doing and bring them into this world, your episode.

00:29:38: And by being quite precise their recruiter will have a good feeling about it.

00:29:45: very often they are going to ask for details a certain element of this episode, and because you are going to bring more context they're gonna feel comfortable that it actually really happened.

00:29:59: It's very difficult for anyone to fake story about nature anyway.

00:30:04: So by asking questions in the past we were quite reassured that is true.

00:30:09: And then often we will ask questions related what candidate was trying explain but often we'll actually veer sideways and ask a question related to something the candidate didn't expect.

00:30:23: For instance, they want to tell us about a go-around situation that they had so... A quick decision you have to make.

00:30:31: They'll say this day on the runway it was suddenly blocked.

00:30:34: we went around And they're going to want me how I did my procedure How they came back etc.

00:30:42: How they communicated with passengers.

00:30:44: perhaps That's what their plan is.

00:30:47: But I'm going to go like okay, just before let's just hold it for a little while.

00:30:52: I'm gonna ask them how did they plan?

00:30:56: For the end of their flight?

00:30:58: Okay What was the plan B?

00:31:00: Did they assess the fuel situation in advance?

00:31:03: Do they know how much time there would have incase overgo around?

00:31:06: do They are no after how much How much leeway they had before they were Gonna Have To Divert?

00:31:12: Was this done?

00:31:13: And then they're going to say, yes more than likely or are you gonna say that there had lots of fuel?

00:31:20: Maybe maybe it has lots of fuels.

00:31:21: Okay this was not really an issue and after the go around I'm going to ask them to run the exact sequence that they went through because when you finish a go-around usually You will do the after take off checklist unless your on an Airbus and theres no check list.

00:31:36: but you typically do.

00:31:38: well actions are completed normally.

00:31:40: The first thing is what's my fuel?

00:31:44: Because usually the go around happens.

00:31:45: You will agree with me, I'm sure you're going at the end of the flight and that they are

00:31:50: usually a

00:31:51: Usually and not the end-of-the-flight?

00:31:53: Usually have a lot less fuel than at the beginning of the fight And in today's world we take as little fuel as possible and so typically a go around results In a fuel situation more than anything else.

00:32:05: Yeah,

00:32:06: and So it's important that the person didn't dive dive into a second approach without This having been evaluated.

00:32:14: Okay, so you see how this question that was initially about to go around ends up being about How they then did the right thing applied their procedures properly and Did enacted deliberately?

00:32:34: So Also the storytelling, you make so to say a deep dive in their own story telling and ask for real-world facts.

00:32:42: And also I think if i got this right This prevents little bit from stories that might have been learned by heart.

00:32:51: Oh yeah now learning a story by heart is not good idea.

00:32:56: We give pointers.

00:32:59: If you get asked a question in this area, it's always good to highlight these sort of parts.

00:33:05: But having rehearsed things is not the way to go because... It means that if you rehearse but haven't prepared enough In fact when you know something need to learn it by heart.

00:33:22: You can talk about this for hours like I'm doing now, you know we didn't really prepare that much.

00:33:27: We're just talking about things that we know.

00:33:31: Something that we often see when working on camera with clients is a client who's not ready typically A few weeks or maybe month into having learned the course.

00:33:41: When we ask them questions they are struggling maintain eye contact and The reason is still looking at their left brain for the information that they have stored somewhere here, somewhere there.

00:33:55: It's not part of their DNA yet and it takes a bit more expertise, more practice before its' part of them.

00:34:03: More dreaming about it you know?

00:34:05: More nights mulling over it And come a point... ...it becomes natural then thats when candidate is ready.

00:34:13: Yeah, but let's take a step back and switch right into your certainly you're corporate here the preparation at the quality of preparation.

00:34:24: What does Quality Preparation actually look like in?

00:34:30: So Let say somebody listening to this interview just finished flight school where do start what?

00:34:36: or a broader question Certainly quality preparation look like in your opinion now?

00:34:46: Well, I'll tell you how i've approached my experience to learning in my own life.

00:34:54: I've always wanted to be trained by the best.

00:34:58: when someone inspires me... ...I want this person to train me and have applied My whole life and recently after I created the airline selection program for instance, I wanted to learn video marketing And various other things because I thought it was a very good way To convey my thoughts but i didn't know how to do It.

00:35:18: That you know How to operate a camera so?

00:35:21: I found someone who inspired me an American marketer typically and I got her course and then I Got a bit of mentoring with her and Then well guess what I had some really Good information at hand and I was operational with its Training from people who inspire you and whom can see, have the skills that your trying to get yourself is a way of going.

00:35:42: So... You look all over the internet And find Who inspires you the most I guess.

00:35:50: But come up point.

00:35:51: The Internet isn't sufficient Precisely because there's too much.

00:35:55: It's counter-intuitive Because so much information Actually never make method out it.

00:36:02: It's the greatest source of knowledge, it is also the greater source of confusion.

00:36:09: Something I often say in my masterclasses... Knowledge unknown definitely not enough!

00:36:15: Most people will tend to remember only three percent of anything they read unless there are a method with practical cases that gets them practice this knowledge and when you go on the internet never get an opportunity to practise your knowledge.

00:36:31: So for you who is looking to prepare and really want this skill that we were talking about, start enjoying it as well because the idea isn't difficult.

00:36:39: It becomes pleasant even when going at a selection.

00:36:42: Focused but pleasant!

00:36:45: For these things learn what they don't know yet – I think you've probably understood there's quite a lot to learn – then apply them.

00:36:54: And this is what the way we do it with our clients, there's a big e-learning course that takes its twelve hours but will take more for most people because they have ideas to go about it bite sized.

00:37:05: Bite size sorry!

00:37:07: Then every week you meet your client at seven p.m.

00:37:12: Paris time and run for an hour and half practice sessions in small groups where candidates get know each other asked questions by myself or one of our other instructors.

00:37:25: And when they come time and time again, then we see a shift in them at around five or six sessions where they start to get it.

00:37:35: When you start getting something that will start to hone your skill is really pleasant time after that the candidate just becomes better and better.

00:37:45: so if you want put this into practice You need have method with both sides because otherwise it just won't work.

00:37:52: And if you're considering something that is in classroom, I think it's still possible in some parts of those countries.

00:37:59: the problem with that is its way too short.

00:38:03: If you do a training thats an afternoon or two days assuming recruited, that the person has credentials and worked for a large airline.

00:38:15: This combination of skills is quite rare actually.

00:38:18: but assuming this person would be great... The problem after day or two they are gone.

00:38:25: now you're left with your notes.

00:38:27: And how do we practice?

00:38:29: In fact it's not so great.

00:38:32: You need to expose yourself much more in order really develop skill More than likely, and such trainings will actually lack in depth to start with.

00:38:41: And this is why they managed to do it over a fairly short period of time because there's not that much into it.

00:38:47: so what we do In our The preparation of candidates for airline selections?

00:38:55: I think the e-learning Is a perfect format?

00:38:57: It really fits Modern candidates needs really well and towards.

00:39:03: We believe that any airline selection training should be universal meaning it should work for any airline.

00:39:09: Of course, you need to fine-tune your target airline but the idea is that they should serve you their whole career.

00:39:15: and then second thing would be accessible.

00:39:18: You should able access on computer also from palm of hand if in underground no reception.

00:39:27: In our case we have an app.

00:39:28: so anytime you want learn

00:39:34: Yeah, but there is no quick fix.

00:39:36: This is my takeaway here.

00:39:38: So how much time should candidates allocate nowadays also with your program or house if they structure the preparation over time?

00:39:48: I will say around three months.

00:39:50: it's good.

00:39:51: Okay

00:39:52: It we've had candidates come and this happens a lot And this is my message to all of you listeners hear is don't leave it till the last minute.

00:40:01: And I'm going to make quite a big development on this, actually.

00:40:04: Because we've got candidates who come to us within ten-to fifteen days and before we take them... ...we ask them how much time do you have during the day right now?

00:40:16: There's quite a lot to learn!

00:40:17: We will build an accelerated phase for that.

00:40:19: I'll be personally very aware of these candidates….

00:40:23: …to respond their questions but still it is short.

00:40:27: It can be huge injection which might end up with in this situation where they might not look you straight-in the eye when answering a question because it hasn't had time to sink.

00:40:40: So for it become natural, you need bit more time.

00:40:48: We still have very big success rates with people who come at short notice.

00:40:52: It's better do course than not but your questions was how much time?

00:40:57: and the idea is three months.

00:40:59: So that you can enjoy your training, not feel rushed go over certain modules several times.

00:41:06: also enjoy our community.

00:41:07: we are very tight with out community without clients so it's... We have a Slack community which works well.

00:41:12: and then to come as many advanced interview practice sessions.

00:41:18: on Monday I said i was going make quite big development because The way market today at moment when recording this podcast.

00:41:31: The market for low-timers is very difficult, and it reminds me of my own story when I did...I finished my ATPL in two thousand one on a finish flight school in two hundred to.

00:41:44: It was time that was very similar in structure to what we have now okay?

00:41:50: Wasn't the same?

00:41:51: there wasn't A geopolitical situation like these.

00:41:55: they were supposed two thousand an one both September, two thousand and one.

00:42:00: And what happened is that hiring stopped for a few months.

00:42:04: some airlines went bankrupt.

00:42:07: those pilots who are type rated came back onto the market preventing from any low timer to be able to access the markets.

00:42:17: it was very difficult even as an instructor in my days.

00:42:21: I became an instructor Instruct for free at flight school, and even then it was tough.

00:42:32: During a phase like this you have several solutions either You just throw the towel when you go okay?

00:42:39: I'm discouraged It's not gonna work etc.

00:42:42: or... ...you stay in front of the door.

00:42:45: And that is what i did!

00:42:50: as you may know from my story, there was this initial failure at an Airfront Selection.

00:43:00: It happened quite quickly after flight school because somehow time was up for the selection and so I got invited... it's only a selection that i'm going to have in nearly two years okay?

00:43:12: This failure is very painful but also useful in the sense of understanding something i don't understand.

00:43:20: Because they debriefed me I made an interview mistake, not a competency mistake.

00:43:28: And so i went to learn everything that i could learn about recruitment... ...I studied American books on recruitment and HR ,not aviation related just to understand what's the job of a recruiter exactly?

00:43:41: So I did push-ups during this time when nothing could happen And I told to myself, ''I'm going stay in front of that

00:43:50: door.''.

00:43:50: When the door opens.

00:43:52: I'll grab an opportunity within a day when it opens and put my application first before everybody else... ...and get invited and succeed!

00:44:02: It's exactly what happened.

00:44:05: A couple years after the Air France thing.. ..I was the French guy who entered into British Airways.

00:44:14: So this sort-of mindset is something i want convey to those who are right now, low-timers probably struggling and I feel for you if you're listening to this.

00:44:23: Right?

00:44:23: Now And then know how it feels that maybe the situation will never resolve an I'll tell you The truth is for most of you well from many of you It won't and the reason is very simple Is at the moment there are sixty thousand pilots in Europe.

00:44:39: The average career length is thirty years.

00:44:42: It means that You need two thousand pilots to renew the present pilot pool in Europe.

00:44:47: Because of the growth and the fact that the retirement curve, a lot more pilots will retire than in normal phase.

00:44:55: We need three thousand pilots per year.

00:44:58: ATOs in Europe produce six-thousand pilots a year so mechanically many pilots won't make it.

00:45:06: The days of the COVID recovery where six thousand pilots were hired and ATO's produced six thousand are gone.

00:45:14: So this is not a message of doom here.

00:45:17: My message is, there are actually fifty percent who will make it.

00:45:21: And the idea to put yourself in this position where you'll be able to make it and what I think after a period of compression that we have right now when our allies don't know whats going on with future they're trying to mitigate.

00:45:37: this recruitment is going to grind down.

00:45:41: When It Will Reopen There WILL BE A PERIOD OF BOOM.

00:45:45: AGAIN IT WILL FEEL LIKE THE COVID BUT FOR probably just three or six months.

00:45:50: The window is going to be quite short.

00:45:52: during this window, you might not have more than two opportunities.

00:45:55: You cannot afford to waste one.

00:45:58: So if your serious about getting this career If you want make good on the investment that you've made.

00:46:03: That's probably biggest investment in life.

00:46:06: You need prepare now when many people actually are not and get discouraged.

00:46:13: Get together with a group of pilots who motivated Be in the solution, not in a problem.

00:46:20: And that's what is going to get you that job.

00:46:24: Guillaume this was such great interview!

00:46:27: You were answering almost all of my questions.

00:46:34: I guess here are my questionnaires.

00:46:36: It was such a great speech by the end.

00:46:40: I thank you for every minute and coming towards the end of this interview, we are already nine minutes over time.

00:46:47: You promised us it's such an honor to speak with you!

00:46:52: Is there anything else Guillaume?

00:46:54: Do you want to share our audience today?

00:46:58: No i'd like to thank you.

00:46:59: yeah...I feel quite motivated myself at that moment.

00:47:03: ...you know..i felt really pumped up very happy to be here.

00:47:08: so sorry you went nine minutes.

00:47:12: No, no it's for me.

00:47:13: I already feel you.

00:47:15: You mean your schedule?

00:47:19: It is a pleasure to talk with you but i don't want to over stress the time schedule here.

00:47:26: Well that's fine.

00:47:27: now thank you Jürgen and if you are listening this podcast well like personally thanks again the ability to speak with you.

00:47:38: Just be in touch, Jürgen will no doubt put everything that is needed.

00:47:42: and don't despair!

00:47:43: There's a light at the end of this tunnel but right now we need to stay there and do whatever it takes okay?

00:47:53: We'll be reaping your results together.

00:47:57: Thank You Guillaume, thank you very much.

00:47:59: Talk to you soon.

00:48:01: Bye

00:48:02: bye Jürgan

00:48:05: All right, and that brings us to the end of the interview.

00:48:08: So how was it for you Jürgen?

00:48:11: I really enjoyed listening to this.

00:48:14: How about being on a one-to-one basis with that interview?

00:48:18: Did you find it interesting as well?

00:48:21: It's just an honor!

00:48:25: to speak with him and this really made absolutely my day.

00:48:29: I mean, April the seventh twenty-twenty six was by the way the recording day.

00:48:35: from my side a sincere thank you to Captain Guillaume de Boucher for joining us in sharing such clear practical insights into airline selection.

00:48:46: it's just an absolute highlight of our podcast platform.

00:48:51: Yeah, I agree.

00:48:52: Super interesting interview!

00:48:54: Uh...I really enjoyed the part about the CV.

00:48:59: That's something that a lot of people don't pay much attention to.

00:49:04: but he is absolutely right.

00:49:06: The first thing we'll see in the airline will be your cover letter and details because these people get handed hundreds, maybe thousands of those things and they skip through them.

00:49:22: And unless you do something that stands out looks professional it's just going to fall at the first hurdle.

00:49:33: so I think there was a really interesting point he brought up which is very important for people realize what big role this plays.

00:49:43: So yeah!

00:49:44: Really cool interview like very interesting man with a very interesting career.

00:49:51: And I think what he does is great because he really helps young people to get into the industry, He helped him increase their chances of getting that first job which was always the hardest.

00:50:05: and yeah... Great work!

00:50:07: Great interview!

00:50:10: I

00:50:11: mean, for pilots preparing for airline recruitment ASP offers structured support as already mentioned it in the intro around to full selection process.

00:50:23: also the CV and cover letter work Stefan just pointed out is there then the simulator assessment and certainly the mindset.

00:50:33: More about Guillaume and the airline selection program you can find on this home page, airlineselectionprogram.com And certainly we put these homepage.

00:50:41: also in our... We got show notes at end of teaser.

00:50:46: So if click to the teaser of podcast scrolled through the end There are all show notes that include ASP Homepage.

00:50:58: Yannemim from my side Maybe some add on here if you feel that your technical prepared.

00:51:07: So the technical preparation is in place, but a mental side especially Managing nerves and D-Day could be improved.

00:51:15: I'm happy to support you there.

00:51:17: And yeah as appointed it out thousand specially in podcast twenty eight time focusing more and more do one two one coaching also this area.

00:51:29: you can find my profile on LinkedIn and the LinkedIn profile is also, so the direct link is part of show notes.

00:51:38: So my LinkedIn profile but I think it's not quite obvious.

00:51:42: It's my real name Jörgen Reis!

00:51:43: It isn't really hard to find.

00:51:45: Also the podcast home page has a way to get connected with me or reach out for me.

00:51:52: The initial conversation is always free-of-charge without obligation.

00:52:01: If this is a thing for you, just write in and I am looking forward to be there.

00:52:08: Sounds great!

00:52:10: Yeah i think that's also one part of it... One should never underestimate the nerves really kick-in especially if its one of those jobs where when your dream job with your dream airline you finally get invited to the selection process, you know?

00:52:29: You probably only have one shot.

00:52:32: A lot of airlines will invite you once but then usually unless they're really desperate that's it!

00:52:43: So

00:52:44: your mental state on that day plays a huge role and like Jürgen said if If you can get yourself in a good frame of mind, if you have tools that can help and techniques to be calm collected confident.

00:53:04: That will go along way.

00:53:05: I guess anyone who is listening the podcast on regular basis knows we all know Jürgen has had huge amount experience with psychology.

00:53:20: So I would definitely say make this part of your preparation to give you the best possible chance.

00:53:28: I mean, i am also writing.

00:53:30: I parted it out in podcast twenty eight this mental coaching syllabus for aviation professionals and did some really serious research the last months.

00:53:40: there are so many similarities between especially an assessment day or assessment days sports competition like i competed in climbing you know?

00:53:50: There is one world cup And doesn't help if your champion training If everything is easy going for you the weeks before, and then your fail on this given day.

00:54:03: So if often you feel it inside that might be also because of past

00:54:10: experiences.

00:54:12: maybe are a person who always had problem with nerves when he came to test situation oral or written exams I mean as pilot already got some previous experience in his field.

00:54:24: You think yeah at this time should work out.

00:54:27: yeah as I said, i'm happy to help.

00:54:30: just reach out for me.

00:54:31: and one more time.

00:54:33: I am not a salesperson.

00:54:35: the first consulting is always so where we figure if I can help you or how?

00:54:44: All I can say please it's better weeks before than days because like in a competition also mental training we are speaking of training.

00:54:58: it

00:54:58: takes some time for practicing to get all together.

00:55:02: but yeah I think this is all i can say from my side and then one more time.

00:55:11: thank you captain Guillaume de Boucher.

00:55:14: And if you listeners are serious about moving from license holder to airline candidate, I guess Stephanie will agree.

00:55:22: This episode was definitely one to listen carefully and maybe more than once!

00:55:29: Yeah absolutely lots of really interesting stuff in there a lot's good tips.

00:55:34: he also mentioned the time frame in the interview.

00:55:37: don't leave it too late with your preparation.

00:55:39: give yourself time.

00:55:41: that is alot to take on board.

00:55:44: He mentioned three months, I think that's very realistic.

00:55:48: I myself prepared for my big interview with this big international airline of life or now... ...I've prepared myself over two months and i think it is a good time frame.

00:56:05: so yeah from my side again.

00:56:07: thank you Jung for the interview.

00:56:09: Thank you for being here today with me.

00:56:12: Always a pleasure to have you here and talking to you, And uh...to the listeners big-big thank you For being with us again, for listening To The Podcast!

00:56:23: We all look forward to hearing and seeing You Again next week!

00:56:30: Yeah bye-bye.

00:56:31: also from my side By the way, thank you for the nice comments we regularly Also, I regularly receive on my LinkedIn profile or also on YouTube.

00:56:44: So to say comment section and by the way there's also a Discord server.

00:56:49: so thank you for all comments.

00:56:51: we are looking forward hearing from again.

00:56:56: Thank

00:57:00: You!

00:57:01: aviation-quest.cc.

00:57:08: We appreciate your time and support, And we'd love to have you back for the next episode.

00:57:20: Until then stay safe Stay curious Keep your passion for aviation flying high.